Trash Service

[Don Haddix]

The return of a single provider trash service has again caused a lot of concern to PTC.

Here is what I can tell you at this point in time from my perspective:


Recycling is a good thing. Good for PTC and the environment. My house has recycled for many years.
Many things cannot be recycled, including such things as glass when there are no buyers for glass in an area.
If not properly sorted a whole recycling batch is contaminated and ends up in the landfill.
Sorting is not a simple process. On many items the container can be recycled but the lids or caps cannot. Some plastic can but many cannot.
Ideally one provider is best.
In reality a monopoly often results in poor service.
A one shoe fits all service model does not work. There will always be many for whom such a simple will not work and it will cause problems in execution.
Single stream requires two trash cans. Many garages, etc. will not not fit two, so where are they going to be stored in communities that do not allow them to be kept outside?
Trash cans stored in the public eye look bad. They are unsightly.
A single provider does not ensure fewer trucks. Single stream uses two trucks, so everyone currently only seeing one truck will now see two. Streets used to reach services areas greater than one pair of trucks will see two more for each additional area being accessed.
Single stream sole provider does not ensure a cheaper price. Last time proposed my HOA and area would have seen a 25% increase.

Bottom line is that while in the ideal it is a great idea, the execution has a lot of issues to deal with and answers to give before it is desired or practical.

I agreed to allow the process to move forward to get answers, prices and so on from the providers. But unless they overcome some very high hurdles my vote is no, an opinion I am not alone in.

Being a Nanny City is not acceptable to me.

[ptcga2]

Although I wasn't at the recent meeting, I am a new resident of PTC and this issue interests me:

- having one provider of trash service would definitely decrease the number of trucks overall. It seems like every day of the week, we have garbage trucks driving up and down our cul-de-sac spewing exhaust fumes, just to pick up one, maybe two or three people's containers. And of course, separate trucks for recycling and garbage, from each company. It seems like everyday is garbage day, and every day there are garbage containers on the curb waiting to be picked up, which takes away from the look of a neighborhood.

- having moved from a town where there is one garbage day, and where almost everyone recycled, seeing PTC's system (or lack of) is quite a change and doesn't make much sense. I see there is a huge movement to maintain choice of service, but in truth, all these companies do is pick up the garbage and haul it away. It's a very basic service, and honestly I can't say it's done any better here than it was in our previous town where there was only one provider. I don't see the advantage of having four companies compete -- but I see a lot of negatives of this system, having just moved from a place with a single provider. If it's a price issue, well it appears to be cheaper to have a single city-wide provider than to pick one's own provider.

- Southhampton in Tyrone uses Robertson sanitation. On garbage day, everyone puts out their container and recycling bin. There is a total of two trucks. On every other day of the week, the streets are clear of garbage containers and trucks. Would this be too much to ask for in PTC? We may think we're better off having four companies' trucks driving through town "competing" for our business, but we're not. We just have a lot of big trucks driving through our city everyday, and they're all doing the same exact thing.

Recycling is another issue. It is shocking how few people recycle here. I started recycling 10 yrs ago after being fined in Ithaca, NY for including recycled goods with garbage. It wasn't a big fine, but I got the point, and it was the right thing to do. It seems like in PTC we are many years away from having 90%+ of people recycle all of their recyclables.

[Don Haddix]

Although I wasn't at the recent meeting, I am a new resident of PTC and this issue interests me:

- having one provider of trash service would definitely decrease the number of trucks overall. It seems like every day of the week, we have garbage trucks driving up and down our cul-de-sac spewing exhaust fumes, just to pick up one, maybe two or three people's containers. And of course, separate trucks for recycling and garbage, from each company. It seems like everyday is garbage day, and every day there are garbage containers on the curb waiting to be picked up, which takes away from the look of a neighborhood.
Agree. But the same can be accomplished by your area getting together and going with one company only.
- having moved from a town where there is one garbage day, and where almost everyone recycled, seeing PTC's system (or lack of) is quite a change and doesn't make much sense.
That is an exception to the rule. 33% is the national average, meaning most people do not recycle.

But I agree recycling is a good thing. I just did some today.
I see there is a huge movement to maintain choice of service, but in truth, all these companies do is pick up the garbage and haul it away.
But there is a huge difference in dependability, noise, etc.
It's a very basic service, and honestly I can't say it's done any better here than it was in our previous town where there was only one provider. I don't see the advantage of having four companies compete --
There is. Competition creates better service and pricing.

As with this issue, the company who had the accepted bid has the worst BBB complaint record. The better companies had higher prices. But, I was contacted by a higher price one, today, who, seeing the writing on the wall, merged recycling with their trash pick up as one offering for the same price as just trash.

That is higher quality service with a reduced price.
but I see a lot of negatives of this system, having just moved from a place with a single provider. If it's a price issue, well it appears to be cheaper to have a single city-wide provider than to pick one's own provider.
No. The one who had the bid backed by Staff had the worst complaint history with the BBB and the third lowest bid price.

Another company, with a higher rating, had a lower price but a smaller recycling bin, which resulted in their rejection.

Sure, smaller would not work for some but would be more than enough for others. So it was a subjective choice.
- Southhampton in Tyrone uses Robertson sanitation. On garbage day, everyone puts out their container and recycling bin. There is a total of two trucks. On every other day of the week, the streets are clear of garbage containers and trucks.
And Robertson is the company who called today with the pricing and service changes, which they did not offer during the bidding.
Would this be too much to ask for in PTC? We may think we're better off having four companies' trucks driving through town "competing" for our business, but we're not. We just have a lot of big trucks driving through our city everyday, and they're all doing the same exact thing.
They differ in quality and when bidding try to drive the price up as much as possible, as evidenced by the call I got today.

But when the sole provider what incentive do they have to improve quality or lower the price? None. They own the turf, so to speak.
Recycling is another issue. It is shocking how few people recycle here. I started recycling 10 yrs ago after being fined in Ithaca, NY for including recycled goods with garbage. It wasn't a big fine, but I got the point, and it was the right thing to do. It seems like in PTC we are many years away from having 90%+ of people recycle all of their recyclables.
I just looked up Ithaca. It has 4 recycling companies servicing it and the highest recycling rate I saw was 29.%.

Remember, how many locations have recycling containers is not the same as how much recycling occurs.

The key to getting people to recycle is education, not mandating and fines.

We struggle with getting people to not litter. Recycling is even harder.

[ptcga2]

Thank you for the reply. It comes down to how much difference we think there is in the quality of service between companies, and whether this is worth the inconvenience of having four companies' trucks driving through our neighborhoods every week. I have switched once since arriving, because the original company did not recycle glass, but other than that they both pick up garbage and recycling in exactly the same way.

$44 is cheaper than any single provider has quoted me in PTC for both garbage and recycling service.

I did not have a choice of garbage or recycling company in Ithaca, NY when I lived there 10 yrs ago. Where I recently moved from, 67% of waste is being recycled (www.ocrra.org (http://www.ocrra.org)). But my perception was that 90%+ of people in our neighborhood put out a recycling bin with recyclables in it every week. In PTC, I am one of very few in the neighborhood who put out a recycling bin for pickup.

If PTC had one garbage provider, it can always put it up for rebid every year, if there is perceived dissatisfaction with service. But my experience is that if there is a service problem, calling the company usually takes care of it (even if/when they are the sole provider...)

[Don Haddix]

Thank you for the reply. It comes down to how much difference we think there is in the quality of service between companies, and whether this is worth the inconvenience of having four companies' trucks driving through our neighborhoods every week. I have switched once since arriving, because the original company did not recycle glass, but other than that they both pick up garbage and recycling in exactly the same way.
Glass is an evolving issue. There at least was a time period where there was no market in Georgia for glass. Debated now how much of a market there actually is and what ends up in landfills.

There is still the issues of consistancy of service, noise, spillage and leakage, etc. Those do vary among carriers, sometimes drastically.
$44 is cheaper than any single provider has quoted me in PTC for both garbage and recycling service.We had at least 3 people, including one on Council, who got the service for a little less than $44.
I did not have a choice of garbage or recycling company in Ithaca, NY when I lived there 10 yrs ago.OK. Seems to have changed. Government mandated provider service often do return to competition due to price and quality issues. Free market drives better service.
Where I recently moved from, 67% of waste is being recycled (www.ocrra.org (http://www.ocrra.org/)). But my perception was that 90%+ of people in our neighborhood put out a recycling bin with recyclables in it every week. In PTC, I am one of very few in the neighborhood who put out a recycling bin for pickup.I want more recycling in PTC. But I can tell you that 2-3% rate is too low. It only includes what is processed via Public Works, so the cans at the fire station, bag recycling at grocery stores, recycling at schools, haulers and other places is not included. I brought that up at the Council Meeting and no one argued. To me it was a number posted to push for mandatory recycling, not a fact based number.

We are not in collision on wanting more recycling. We are in agreement.

It is the how to get there we disagree on.

NY is a very liberal state that pushes state controlled agendas. As with all such states the tax rates are much higher than other states that do not and more restrictions on personal freedoms. Nor do they often have the best results.

Do not get me wrong. Georgia has plenty of room for improvement, as does PTC. And one of the reasons I ran for office was to work on those improvements.
If PTC had one garbage provider, it can always put it up for rebid every year, if there is perceived dissatisfaction with service. But my experience is that if there is a service problem, calling the company usually takes care of it (even if/when they are the sole provider...)I agree.

Making the program mandatory adds a whole other layer of government to an issue that does not need. There has to be opt out controls and paper work by City Hall, ordinances generated to allow action against citizens who do not comply to the letter, city oversight on a provider who has lost the pressures of the market place to be better than his competitors, the issue of who determines when a rebid is needed and how and on and on.

It creates more issues than it fixes.

As you hinted at, in NY, you had Trash Police. That is a cost to the city, even if it is the police or code enforcment taking on an extra monitoring roll.

And who reports who for violations by what standards? Too much socialism and police state scenario in such things for my comfort.

Education is the key. Get people to understand and want to recycle. Not someone monitoring trash cans for content.

Our goals are the same, I believe. Just the how we get there varies.

As I said, neighbors need to get together and agree on one provider. If they do not then something is not the same between providers and the provider can be talked to for a service tailored to individual neighborhoods, which gives better service than a single city wide standard.

Even in town with single providers in Georgia they cannot force anyone to actually recycle. And they end up putting fiscal burdens on limited income citizens who could deal with there trash, appropriately, in other ways than a paid service, as in maybe a neighbor sharing a can.

Lots of issues swirling around this debate. They all have to be looked at and balanced out.